Interview with Nick Hexum (Vermont Collegian, 1995)‏

Following are some exerpts from a phone interview that I did with Nick Hexum while the band was in Columbia, South Carolina.

Collegian: How's have the shows been going on this tour so far? Have they been selling out?

Hexum: Fuckin' great. Yeah, I mean, packed houses every night.

Collegian: That's great. And you guys are obviously doing bigger venues this time around.

Hexum: Yep. We're just, you know, slowly stepping everything up every time we ... every time we go out, we play the next step up; and, you know, it was just like, we're not into any sort of ... we're not like a band that's looking to like bust out all at once. We're looking at it, like, slowly build up the following through ... you know, not through hits, but through making good albums and through word of mouth, and through live shows, and, you know, that's the whole grassroots philosophy right there.

Collegian: Yeah. I hear the shows are gettin' pretty wild.

Hexum: Yeah. I mean, I like to call us the no-hit wonders because its like, the amount of people that we get at our shows is amazing considering that we don't have any fuckin' Top 40 hits or anything. So I'm really stoked to see it.

Collegian: So you guys pretty much haven't stopped, it seems like, for a few years - hittin' the road pretty hard.

Hexum: No, I mean, its been ... we're either in the studio or touring, pretty much non-stop, and, you know, its like, I think we finally have earned a little relaxation time. I think in like February and March, we're gonna just chill, which, you know, I'm looking forward to. I mean, I've been havin' a fuckin' blast out here, but, at the same time, I miss having, you know, a kitchen and a car, and, you know, like a bedroom, and shit like that, that a lot of people probably take for granted; but I wouldn't, you know ... I'm not complaining. I wouldn't trade it for anything, but we're gonna take some time off.

Collegian: That's cool. Now, you were talkin' about the fact that you guys don't really have any hits or anything like that, but actually I think your songs have started to break into radio a little bit, haven't they? Are you guys starting to get into the major radio markets?

Hexum: You know, I really don't keep much track on that, cause its not something that I can, like, control; but I've heard that we are doing well on that aspect. But to me its like ... we've come so far without any real hits, that it almost is like ... it doesn't have that much of effect, because whether we're on the radio or not, we're still gonna be, you know, playin' to pretty good-sized audiences and ... but, you know, the idea of radio is a good idea. I mean, free music comin' over the airwaves is a great thing, but there's a lot of pussy-ass programmers that only play the safest, you know, crap that they can get their hands on, so, you know, I really ... I just try and focus on things that I can control, which are, you know, putting on a great live show and good albums, and beyond that, its out of my hands.

Collegian: Yeah, we don't even have a radio station here that plays 311, which is pretty sad to say, and I mean, I don't know if that's typical of the rest of the country - I don't think it is, because I think we have lame radio - but, you know, it might be hard for a band like you guys who, I think, are really unique and have a unique sound that may not, kind of, break into mainstream radio so easily.

Hexum: Yeah. Well, I think its, like, we definitely set out to do something that's a little more difficult because, you know, when you're combining reggae and rap and rock styles all into one song, its like there's no format for that. I mean, okay, there's R&B and rap radio, which just plays, you know, black music, and then there's rock radio, which plays rock, but there's nothing for something that's like smack-dab in the middle, you know what I'm sayin'? But we definitely wouldn't consider, you know, changing our style just to fit into the radio, and that's ... you know, that's the most important thing to us. To us, you know, it would be selling out to make fuckin', you know, punky pop or whatever's all over the radio right now, you know what I'm sayin'? Its like, we're definitely down for, you know, the funk and shit that really makes us happy.

Collegian: Exactly. As far as the album goes, we'll just talk about that, because its something that we just ... we love this new album. We listen to it, like, every day, honestly. We've found ourselves kind of like addicted to it, but, um ... is this like, for you guys, would you consider this the album where it kind of all came together and, I mean, it seems like you really solidified your sound and its just a real solid album all the way through, and I was just wondering if you could talk about that.

Hexum: Well, we had always had the plan of like ... its just like, whatever we're talkin' about around the recording of the album, is like what comes out in the title and, like, when we recorded Music, we were takin' rap and making it more musical and more melodic as far as we're concerned, and so that's why we called that that; and then on Grassroots, we were talkin' about, I mean, there was kind of like some conflict with the label. They wanted us to come out with some fuckin' radio-friendly poppy hit that could get us over, and we said 'Fuck you, we're not doin' that,' and we said we're gonna run our shit through grassroots means, you know, and so we called our album that to, you know, really, you know, to just state for the record what we're up for.

And then ... and we had also always said a long, long time ago, is that when we feel like we have just made the quintessential 311 statement, when we're in our total prime and when we feel really satisfied with what we've done, that we're gonna call it 311. And so, originally, we were gonna call this new album "Hive," because "'95 we go for the hive" is like a little somethin' that we'd been sayin,' but, you know, we just ... we felt real good about it, and we said: 'Look, you know, this is what we do, and if people don't like this album, then they don't like 311. This *is* 311.' So that's why we called it that.

Collegian: Cool. Where does the name come from?

Hexum: You know, it really is just a number. Its just like ... I'm not the one that made up the name. It was actually a guy that's not in the band anymore, that was only in the band for like a very short time, and like, P-Nut goes, 'Well ... How 'bout the ...' He goes 'Jim has this name 311' and I was like 'I love it,' you know, 'Boom!' (snaps) First second I heard it I said 'I like it. Let's be that.' And then he goes, 'Well, you know, I think its, like, the police code for insane man on the loose,' and then it turned out that police code for indecent exposure, and, you know, we make up all kinds of different things for it, so its like ... really, it just means five guys from Nebraska makin' music, you know, its just a name like Nick or John or anything else, you know what I mean?

Collegian: I'm a big lyric guy, and I know that you write most of the lyrics - you and SA write a lot of the lyrics and stuff. I love the lyrics, and I think its something that you can get into ... its something you may not notice right away because you're into the music and stuff, and there's a lot of 'em, but I think you just look into it and there's some really amazing lyrics, and you guys ... do you write as a team, or how do you guys write, as far as the lyrics go, or how do you write your tunes? "Make it instrumental/add a little vocals..."?

Hexum: Yeah. Usually, like ... well, it depends. I mean, sometimes I'll come forward with a completely finished song that's got all the parts kind of worked out, you know, but, uh, other times, like Chad'll write an instrumental and then me and SA will get together and put various raps that we've written on our own over it. And, sometimes they can be just completely ... like the song called "Random" is called that because the vocals are completely random topic-wise, you know what I'm sayin'? They don't have any, sort of, theme, but I like that sometimes - just random imagery, you know? And there's other songs like "Don't Let Me Down" has got, you know, a real heavy, sort of, theme about, you know, depression, and, you know, more heavy topics, and like, at one point SA came forward, you know, with, like, a rap that was, like, about aliens and shit, and he wanted to put that in that song, and I was like 'C'mon, man. That really doesn't fit in the context of what we're doin' here.' So sometimes it can be random and other times, you know, we'll have a theme.

Collegian: But actually there are ... I mean, you do have a lot of references to ... the possibility life beyond earth, you know, and space and the galaxy and stuff like that, and obviously, you know, there's a lot of imagery in the CD and stuff like that. I mean, could you talk about that? What's that all about?

Hexum: Well, I mean, its just ... if you consider the, you know, the number of stars that there are in the sky and, I mean, to think that our star is the only one that can sustain life is really egotistical and ridiculous. I mean, it just seems very, very probable that there are other life forms in the universe and its ... you know, I can't say for sure, but its just something that we would, you know, believe and ... and I've always been in like - even back in the days of our first album, you know in "Hydroponic" I'm singin' about, like, spacial physics, the relations between, like, how everything is getting infinitely smaller and infinitely larger, that, like, the form of our solar system, with the sun being the nucleus and the planets being the orbitals, the electrons; is exactly like that of an atom, what we know as the model of an atom. So everything is part of a larger body and it gets infinitely smaller and infinitely larger, and, you know, we've always just sort of been into trying to grasp things like that into what our tiny little role is in this, you know, cosmic huge universe. And its pretty mind-boggling, and we just kind of throw out images of, like, what we talk about and what we think about.

Collegian: Yeah, I think its cool, because I think the sound - especially in a few tunes - it kind of gives you that feeling, too, you know, I mean you guys ... I don't know how to describe it, but sometimes the sound kind of reaches this level where its like, I don't know, its almost, like, other-worldly, 'cause its got this kind of cool quality to it.

Hexum: Yeah, we get into ambient, sort of, trippy, you know, effects and shit like that, and other times, we'll just be just straight-up, raw, no effects, just hard-rockin' guitars, balls-out shit. But, you know, we like to dabble all over the place.

Collegian: Yep. Exactly. You were talkin' about the Hive before. What's that referring to, would you say? I mean, to me, it seems like just the whole, kind of, swarm of people who who are at the shows and stuff like that. Is that what's that a reference to?

Hexum: Its that, and also, you know, the nucleus of it being our band. It was just something that kind of evolved out of a joke, that in ... like, '94 was the 'go-for-self era' - when someone would do somethin', we'd be like 'oh, I see, its the go-for-self era, when someone would like, you know, grab something for themselves, or something like that. But now we said, 'alright, but all that shit's over in '95,' '95 we go for the hive,' and its just like we've ... we just made a commitment to really all work together to get our music out to a larger group of people and, you know, the hive does include the people that come to our shows, the people who write articles about us, like yourself. I mean, its just like everybody that's down with the 311 positivity sort of vibe.

Collegian: And talkin' about the positivity, I mean, I know people make a lot about that - I know I've read that in just about everything and obviously that's an important thing for you guys, as far as the positive vibe. I mean, um ... and it seems to me, at the same time, you guys are real positive, but, still, at the same time, you're not, kind of, averse to, like, you know ... "If you hurt her again I'll fuck you up" and, you know, I mean, its not like you guys have the angst and stuff going, but its not like you guys are pussies either, you know what I mean?

Hexum: Right. Yeah, we don't try and, you know, hide any side of what we're doing, but I would say the prevailing, you know, images are positive.

Collegian: Yep. Would you say that that is kind of an influence from like reggae philosophy or just how you guys feel in general?

Hexum: Yeah. Yeah, I think the whole reggae ethic has definitely influenced us a lot, like from ... you know, from growin' up listening to Bob Marley and .. you know, it definitely comes from that.

Collegian: "Grew up punk, listening to the funk"?

Hexum: Yeah (laughs)

Collegian: Were you kind of a punker growin' up?

Hexum: Yeah, I was in a way, but I wasn't like the ... you know, the pissed off at everybody outcast, you know? I was more of just, like, lets fuckin' get together and mosh and have a good time, you know what I'm sayin'? I mean, I love the release of punk, but I'm not, you know, nihilistic about, you know, 'fuck everybody.' I'm much more into bringin' people together and stuff like that.

Collegian: Exactly. One thing people ask us every time we mention you guys - because we talk about you a lot - and ... people are just like 'Nebraska - where the hell is that?' And for us, that's a long way away, but, I mean, what were ... how did you guys get your musical influences? I mean, obviously, its a huge city, but it seems like it wouldn't be the place for your style of music, I guess, is what I'm tryin' to say ...

Hexum: No, I mean, there's not like a bunch of bands doin' our sound at all in Nebraska. It was definitely a brand new thing when we came out of there, but, um ... I don't know, I feel that Omaha being geographically located right in the middle of the country is also, you know, sort of representative of how we draw from influences from all over the country - you know, we've got ... I used to listen to old school rap like Run DMC and shit like that as well as, you know, California bands like Chili Peppers and X and stuff like that. You know, its just ... we're just grabbin' from all over the place, and, you know, people would assume that we were not exposed to much in Nebraska, but there surprisingly is a cool punk scene there, there's reggae bands, you know, and you can get rap records or anything else in Nebraska. So people's misconceptions about what we're gonna be like because where we're from is, you know, somethin' we have fun laughing at because its, you know ... nobody determines what anyone's gonna do just 'cause where they're from, you know what I'm sayin'? Its like, you can make any style of music being from any geographical location, any race, anything you want - its all out for the public domain and, you know, we're not gonna recognize any, sort of ... you know, walls.

Collegian: Yep. I think a lot of people reference you guys, you know, obviously, with the Bad Brains, and, um, having that be an influence ...

Hexum: Yeah, that was a huge influence. Absolutely.

Collegian: And, I mean, of course, you guys ... we reviewed the "Hempilation" CD in one of our latest issues, and I think that we dubbed that the best song on the CD. And that's obviously ... not really a Bad Brains tune (HR). How'd you guys end up doin' that? Is that something you had wanted to do?

Hexum: Well, High Times gave us a list of songs - of pot songs - that they wanted us to pick from to cover, and - incidentally, "Hydroponic" and "My Stoney Baby" were a couple of the ones on there - but we said, you know, 'Have you ever heard the song "Who's Got the Herb?" and they were, like, 'Uh, no, never heard of it," and we were, like, 'That's the dopest pot song ever.' So, they were like 'Well, we're gonna have to hear it first," and we were, like, "No, just trust us. Its the bomb.' Steve Bloom is like - the music editor over there, he's the one who pretty much put the shit together - and now he's like, 'you guys were so right,' that the "Hempilation" wouldn't be complete without that song. So, you know, we're really happy with how that turned out, and its a tribute to someone who really was a big influence, and, you know, its unfortunate he has so many personal problems ... you know, getting arrested and everything else, but it doesn't taint the music, you know what I'm sayin'?

Collegian: Right. And I know a lot has been made about your support of that issue in general, but, I mean, I know that's not one of the main things that you guys are about, but, you know, it was something that you guys were psyched to be a part of, I understand.

Hexum: Yeah. I mean, its like ... its not like we're a, you know, a ... strictly 'lets legalize pot movement band' at all. Its just ... we're being honest about what we do and stating for the record about how we feel, you know what I'm sayin'? And, um ... its just one facet of what we're doin', but its somethin' that we do for fun, and its definitely a safe ... you know, safer thing to do than getting drunk, you know what I'm sayin'? Its like, people don't get in fist fights and crash their cars when they're stoned like they do when their drunk. So, I mean, its like ... its pretty ridiculous that its illegal, and I think that people are slowly, kind of, figuring that out, this mentality of grouping all drugs together, of putting, you know, cocaine and marijuana in the same group is just plain stupid, and, you know, eventually, I believe that people will figure it out, and I don't know if it'll happen in our lifetime or not, but its just ... its too much of a waste of taxpayers' money to go after stoners. Its just a waste.

Collegian: Yeah. In the opening tune, in "Down," you guys say "we've changed a lot." How have you guys changed, would you say, over the years? I mean, I know ... it seems like you guys have definitely changed even from your sound and stuff like that, and I think in some of the songs the lyrics talk about drugs being a factor maybe in the early days and maybe not being so much now, or ... I was wondering if you could just describe some of the ways that you guys have changed over the years.

Hexum: Well, I think ... (sighs) ... I think, you know, as people grow up, they figure out what makes them happy and how to stay happy, and, um, definitely, for me, you know, not doing hard drugs is something that keeps me happy, and, I, you know ... most of us are really health-conscious people - we like to exercise, we like to eat good, we like to get a lot of rest, and, you know ... and it makes it so we're in a better mood and we have more fun on stage and so forth. We're not like a fuckin' regimen where everyone has to do the same thing. I mean, we've got P-Nut, who's the token slacker, who, you know, smokes cigarettes and doesn't exercise and eats bacon cheeseburgers all the time, but, you know, we love him just the same. But, you know, like, the rest of us are kind of, more like non-smoker - non-cigarette smokers, that is - you know, we like to work out and just ... But as far as how we've changed ... musically, I think its stil, you know, combining dancehall reggae, hard rock, funk, rap, jazz - all the same ingredients - but we've just ... you know, gotten more focused on what we like to hear, and I think on this new album, we don't take as many abrupt left turns musically, like we've got ... more of the songs have a similar groove through the entire song. Like, on the first two albums, we'll just snap straight from a fucking heavy groove into a reggae groove, like, instantly, and, you know, that might've been a little bit more hard for people to comprehend. And so, I don't know ... its kind of hard to define how we've changed, but, you know, its just a ... its such a gradual thing, you know?

Collegian: What is the song "Down" about?

Hexum: Just, we've always been down, you know, down for the hive, down for what we're doin', you know ... not like down as far as like depressed or something. It just means, like, we're down for each other. That's all it means. Down for our fans, you know its just ... like that.

Collegian: Yeah, like I was sayin', we just really love this album and I was wondering how you hooked up with Ron Saint Germain, who produced it, 'cause obviously, I mean, he's great, and all the artists that he's done have been some of my favorite albums, and I think that obviously was a great thing for you guys to hook up with him.

Hexum: I agree. On our first two albums ... Eddy Offord came to us and, you know, he heard one of our demos and, like, called us up and was, like, 'I love your band, I want to produce you' and this and that, and then on our second album, we had a lot of problems with him, from him being completely wasted all the time, and being arrested and finally, you know ... we had to fire him. So that - considering all that shit went on while "Grassroots" was recorded - it turned out great, but then, I mean, you know, considering how much adversity there was at the time, I feel pretty pleased with how it still turned out, because we were extremely stressed out during that period. But, on this new album, we finally got ... we said 'who the hell in the whole world would we want to have' and it was, like, no question about it - Ron Saint Germain. I mean, when we used to live in Omaha, we would listen to Quickness and I Against I and just be like, 'this is the fuckin' rockin'-est-sounding shit I've ever heard. We've gotta record with this guy one day, you know, and it was like a dream. And we met him, and we just hit it off, and he's just like this super-energetic guy. He's super positive. He took us up in his airplane and, you know, he parties with us. He's just a great guy, as well as he's done every single style of music there is, you know? It was a real pleasure to work with him, and I think we might do some more of that in the future.

Collegian: Why did you guys move out to L.A. in the first place?

Hexum: We just felt like ... I mean, we had become, like, the biggest band in Omaha and there wasn't any labels there and it was like being the biggest band in Omaha really doesn't mean that much because ... I mean, it was a great place for us to develop our talent, and, you know, get used to rockin' crowds and develop our songwriting and everything like that, and it was a very nurturing crowd to, you know, there were a lot of enthusiastic audiences there, but we really felt like we had gone as far as we could. We needed to get out where there was record labels and things like that, and so we moved to L.A. just to ... get noticed, you know what I mean? Its like, we go to Omaha quite a bit, like 3 or 4 times a year, and I'll be there for Thanksgiving as well as for Christmas, but I just really ... there's just so much to do in L.A. I love all the restaurants and clubs and, you know, the culture there is a lot more immediate. It takes a little longer for things to get to the middle of the country. The shit starts at the coast and sort of moves inward. But you can be from anywhere, you know what I mean? Its like, we didn't need to move to L.A., but we just kind of wanted to, just for ... you know, to totally immerse ourselves in music and try and become a ... rather than being a big fish in a little pond, try and conquer a larger pond (laughs).

Collegian: Yeah, and it seems like the transition was pretty smooth for you guys. That's, I think, you know, the general perception. Didn't slow you down at all, that's for sure, as far as makin' music.

Hexum: It was like, it was only ... like, when we moved out to L.A., there was a couple months where shit was real tight, as far as, 'cause we didn't have any income comin' in, or none of us had jobs or anything, and so we were just, like, we were like, 'Please sign us now,' and it happened just in the right time before we were flat broke, you know? So it actually all worked out really nicely.

Collegian: That's cool. Has that changed your influence at all, do you think? I mean, life in L.A., has that, like, affected your songwriting and lyric writing and stuff?

Hexum: Um ... I would say not that much. I mean, I would say that we're exposed to the new, fresh, like, hip-hop and reggae styles a little quicker when you're in L.A. because, you know, because that's where the shit comes from, but, um ... but as far as like the mix of the styles we're doing - we were doing dancehall back in 1988 when we lived in Omaha, and so its like, I would say its stayed pretty consistent, and I don't really see any outlooks on the ... you know, any changes in the future. I think we'll always just really be focused on keeping the music melodic and having, you know, singing being a big element in our music, because, I mean, I love the immediacy of rap and we'll always have that element, but to me, if its all rhythmic and no meledy, it doesn't have the classic lasting power that, you know, a great ... a great song, you know, a great melody has, so ... we'll just keep blending the both, you know?

Collegian: Yep. And its cool. I mean, I think there's not many bands who are able to deal with success, you know, kind of in a good way, but that seems to be the case with you guys, and, as far as, you know ... you guys just seem to be handling it. I mean, bigger shows and more people and stuff, and I mean, obviously, its just gonna get bigger and bigger, but you guys aren't really afraid of that at all, are you?

Hexum: No, because we know ... we'll keep aproaching everything the exact same way, you know, its like, we're not gonna start getting into, like, our image, and you know, I mean, some of these bands are so fucking image-oriented and they can't even play that good. You know, we're always gonna be about the music and about putting on a good live show and, you know, just being ourselves, and we're not gonna be, like, a big glamour band or any of that bullshit, you know what I'm sayin'? Its like, the more people that come to our shows, the better, and we're gonna keep the exact same approach.